Writerly Ways

[cornerofmadness]

A topic came up on my author's list about betas and their expectations. I'll be honest. While I respect my betas' opinions and suggestions, I don't take every one offered (which was the crux of the dispute on the list). So when the lovely betas who went through Kept Tears see the final product and see a spot and thing 'didn't I tell her to get rid of that?' don't be upset that I didn't.

How I weigh a beta's suggestion is many-fold. Often, if I'm very lucky, I have more than one set of eyes on my pro work. I wait until I have those multiple opinions back and compare and contrast. Then I consider how I feel about the scene and how I see their suggestions. More often than not, I take the suggestion but occasionally I think 'well here is that explanation they wanted, just a paragraph before. They must have been reading too fast.' Or I might just disagree with something.

wildrider and I belong to the same writers group and there's usually a dozen of us, give or take and sometimes the responses there can be divvied up right down the middle with half loving something and the other half going 'get rid of it.' When that happens, I do look at majority rule. I also weigh in the personalities involved. I was once in a group that I left because of the personalities involved, especially since one of them, a dominant member, thought everyone should write like Hemmingway and mercilessly went after it, belittling both description and any author using it. After a while others began to bend to his ideas (with the exception of those who didn't live in the same area. One part of the group all lived in the same city and met in person as well as by mail). I finally left but not before becoming afraid to describe things. (and these attacks were not just on my ability with description but across the board).

So getting a beta that works with you is an important thing. You have to trust them to help you without making you feel small and worthless as an author. I saw someone in the group I'm in now, long before wildrider joined, who was badgered into quitting by her creative writing class which was a pity. She was good, good enough to make me enjoy contemporary literature which I don't usually do by and large. In a group like my writers group if I find just one person who doesn't like my style, I can tune them out. When it's the whole group you have to start wondering is it them or it is you and confidence can be destroyed.

When I'm working one on one with a beta, I like to keep the lines of communication open. Sometimes I don't see what they're driving at or why they were confused by something that was clear to me. Often we bounce ideas off one another. I don't take every idea offered. evil_little_dog will attest to that (nor does she take every idea I give her nor would I expect her to).

Ultimately the story belongs to the author. for better or worse, they make the final decisions (at least until the editor gets it). Even my professional editors give me the option of not taking an edit though expects me to say why I didn't. I've never tried that since most of the edits I've gotten have been good ones. A good beta is a thing of glory. I'm more than willing to trade beta services (and I NEED to be better/faster than I have been. I know that.) So if you ever want to get in on the ground level of one of my stories, let me know!

camp nano -

9594 / 15000
(63.96%)

yearly word count -

83735 / 125000
(66.99%)

Comments

[mamculuna.livejournal.com]

I used to submit stories to an online critique group, somewhat like Critters. I would be amazed at how varied the responses would be. It was true that my stories had problems, but there's a difference between a reader who understands what I'm trying to do and helps me see how to do it, and a reader who wants me to be writing an entirely different story. I'm sure with your betas (whom I guess are mostly at least acquaintances of yours), there's probably not such a huge gap in getting the point, though.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

You'd be surprised. The betas from my flist here, you'd be right. They pretty much know me and know what I'm looking for.

While my writers group that I share with wildrider is a closed group there is a wide gulf between many of us. We had writers who hated genre fiction and others who felt the same about contemporary (me). Some refuse to even read what they don't like which annoys me but hey, I'll return that favor.

I keep saying I'll restart my own group for genre fiction but I never seem to find the time and I've been a part of Link for 15 years so it's hard to give up even though sometimes, it's not at helpful as it could be

[mamculuna.livejournal.com]

My writer's group here in town is romance writers and me. Actually, I like the people personally but they were so clueless about fantasy that I finally quit going. I have to admit I didn't love reading the romances, either--but tried to do it from the viewpoint of their intended readers, as well as I could.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

that's what I do but yeah, it's important to find a group you fit into. I would love to get mine going again for fantasy/sf/mystery.

Even though I write kinda romance for the m/m erotica stuff, I'm NOT a giant romance reader

[mamculuna.livejournal.com]

Even when I write erotica, it's not romantic. I just don't have the vision...

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

I'm not that good at it either. I would rather write something else with a romantic subplot if it has to be there...

[wildrider.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's a pain sometimes, but the stuff I DO get from the group is helpful, so I stick with it.

Largely, I've learned to use what I think is important and weigh anything that I might disagree with and see if a) it's valid, and b) if it fits with what I've envisioned. A lot of the time I can be talked around to something else, and if I find it valid, I will change it; or, I'll take a suggestion which makes me look at something with a new critical eye, and I may do something entirely different from either what the beta saw and what I had before.

I always like to hear something, though, since a lot of what I write and present was written in a tremendous hurry in the month of November and then I spend the next (mumbly-mumbly) years fixing it...

[evil-little-dog.livejournal.com]

I'm glad I can be of help!

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

you are a huge help and I'm always grateful even if I forget to say so

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

I hear you on every point and this is mostly how I do it too. Occasionally I get something that's out in left field but I usually get things that help.

I do love seeing mistakes that me and three betas all missed (I am a SLOPPY writer).

Also right there with you on the nano taking forever to edit.

Speaking of which I haven't forgotten the thing you've sent me. The lecture writing (and being home with the parents all those weeks) has been interfering.

[wildrider.livejournal.com]

The stuff out of left field...? Well, what can we do. I went off for a half-page on one member of our writer's group not knowing that Scottsdale is a part of the Phoenix valley.

Well, hell, I don't remember if I sent you anything -- I just remembered TODAY that Links are due tomorrow, so that's what I'm doing with my afternoon/evening.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

yeah I know. And I spent a similar half page pointing out Don't Ask Don't Tell meant if you were outed you would be OUT of the military.



Oh. crap! I didn't remember at all

[sillymagpie.livejournal.com]

wildrider was badgered into leaving your group? That's too bad.

Betas are workshop readers. I feel you're obligated to consider their edits, but you can reject their changes. Meh.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

no, she's within the commas, the sentence was about someone else entirely before Wildrider joined.

I agree. And I've only had this issue once (not with any of my current betas) and she no longer is one of mine.

[priarani560.livejournal.com]

Great post.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

thanks

[evil-little-dog.livejournal.com]

:D