Still vaguely sickly

[cornerofmadness]

It's trying hard to be an ear infection. Blech.

I dreamed I was trying to find the perfect place to ghost hunt with Melinda and had found this old abandoned house on a country road but when we went back I was wrong. there was this huge house with a school attached (like maybe a Catholic school with the parish house) and the abandoned house was actually a barn but we tried it anyhow. Melinda sits down by the barn right by a big white peacock which gets mad and spends the rest of the dream biting me. My brain....

I had some questions for my Jewish friends. Isaac Adler in my Weird West story is Jewish (of damaged faith thanks to the Civil war). I was wondering if anyone could answer a few questions (that I probably could just Google...)

How long is a service on average? What time of day normally? Would it have been longer in the 1860s? (I know for example that Catholic services would have been in Latin back then, for instance)

Any idea if they would have the rest of the day free after going to Temple back then?

what are they allowed and not allowed to do on the sabbath (I know about not traveling)

could they entertain a guest who came to the house on the sabbath

Any idea if a man would sit outside with just his kippah on or would he always have a hat on over it? (he's on the porch) What I've found is 'there is much debate.' Oh well.

And if you think of anything I might easily overlook with this character, feel free to point it out.

And it's been since forever since I've done a music monday. I'm still rather sad and what I often do in those times is go back to when I was really happy. This means going WAY back to college. Let's have a little hair band music. Feel free to hit me with some of your favorites too.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

(this was my class song senior year until the administration put the kibosh on it)

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Comments

[sonjajade.livejournal.com]

great tunes!! Sadly I don't know anythign about Judaism to be of any help. Good luck.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

thanks. I really loved this music.

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

How long is a service on average? What time of day normally? Would it have been longer in the 1860s? (I know for example that Catholic services would have been in Latin back then, for instance)I belong to the Conservative movement & Shabbat services are about 3 hours long. Orthodoxy could be longer.

Any idea if they would have the rest of the day free after going to Temple back then? Yes. You do no manner of work at all on Shabbat. As Doctor, if someone was deathly ill, suffering, something along those lines, he would do his job.

what are they allowed and not allowed to do on the sabbath (I know about not traveling)No manner of work is done at all except as doctor doing something that would save a person's life. You cannot light candles/put on the lights, cook, clean,there are no weddings or funerals on Shabbat. You could read & study, general reading form the Torah & studying the Talmud.

could they entertain a guest who came to the house on the sabbath, yes, but again, you can't cook a meal for them, so you would foods that don't need to be cooked.

Any idea if a man would sit outside with just his kippah on or would he always have a hat on over it? (he's on the porch) What I've found is 'there is much debate.' Oh well. Depends, but err on the side of the time period he's living in & say, we would put a hat on over his kippah to sit outside.

And if you think of anything I might easily overlook with this character, feel free to point it out. I can't think of anything off hand.

Hope that helps! :D

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

I helps plenty thank you.

3 hours long. 0_0! Of course Catholic masses would have been all day back then...

I did not know about the no cooking thing. That's very good to know. So normally is it a day of fasting or just eating cold foods?


Yeah that's what I figured re: the hat.

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

You're welcoem!

But it doesn't really feel that long. Part of it is reading the Torah portion for the week & then someone chants the haftorah, which is related to the Torah portions. And there's prayers & the sermon, & announcements related to goings on for the community (meaning the members of the shul). Since Shabbat starts on Friday after sundown there's a service for that. There are services all week, at night & in the morning & quite possibly in the afternoon. When Shabbat ends there's a beautiful service where they light a special candle & you welcome the light back into your life.

The woman of the house would make a special dish that's kept simmering all night/the next day until sundown called Cholent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholent Because making a fire/lighting a lamp can be seen as work, this is why all shuls have the Shabbos Goy (sp?), a non Jew who turns on the lights, etc, on Shabbat & holidays. You only fast on holidays that require it. The big fasting day/holiday is Yom Kippur & you fast from sundown to just after sundown the next day & nowadays you pretty much spend the day in shul. When they take a break, for the afternoon, it's possible to meet with the Rabbi for a study group. You could eat cold food of that's all you had. Remember anything seen as work, wouldn't be done on Shabbat.

*nods* :D

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

thanks again very helpful (heck I can't sit still for the 45 minute Catholic mass...)

Oh that CHolent thing is so very helpful (and boy do I not like stews like this. I'd be so sad). I didn't know about the lights etc.

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

You're welcome. yeah? XD I know Friday night services aren't as long & the service during the week at night is about 45 minutes long. Plus if they can't get a minyan (10 or more Jewish men) the services will be shorter, cuz they can't do certain things. I think reading from the Torah is one of them. Or say certain prayers.

Oh good! Awe... Yeah. If there's any other questions I can try to answer them, or if possible, try your local library for a book on Judaism. :D

[a2zmom.livejournal.com]

A few other things. On Shabbos, you are not allowed to carry anything once you're outside of the house.

It's pretty much seen as a day to recharge - quiet studying, being with the family, etc. And all your animals rest also on this day. So no use of your horses.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

thanks. also very helpful. when they say no work, looks like they really mean it.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

thanks again

I would be better off look on the next than my library. THe closest temple here is 50 miles away...

[a2zmom.livejournal.com]

I won't go into the crazier aspects but no one beats Judaism when it comes to the letter of the law.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

I believe you. And some make complete sense to me (pigs for example carried tons of dangerous parasites so I understand the food ban) and others I am curious about like why no dairy with beef or shrimp (I asked that of a priest once since the no Shrimp thing is in Leviticus but as far as I know Christians have decided to ignore that.

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

You're welcome!

Yeah? WOW! And to think there's an orthodox shul about a 10 minute walk from my house. XD We don't belong there. Which reminds me, the men & women sit separately & there's often curtains separating them. XD (Which is why we don't belong to it). 50 miles, you'd have to drive to attend services. XD

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

yes I did know that about the orthodox folk (I did my residency in NYC with several)

Not sure how many Jewish folk are here. I've have exactly one student that I knew of and she was from Columbus so... My only local Jewish friends live in Athens where the temple is and you probably Still have to drive to it

[a2zmom.livejournal.com]

The dairy vs meat comes from leviticus - you shall not boil a kid in its mother's milk. That was interpreted to mean dairy and meat must be eaten separately. Shrimp (and all other shellfish) are specifically forbidden in leviticus along with a whole bunch of trafe (forbidden) foods.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I still wonder why the shellfish, maybe because they turn bad so fast that they decided it was best to literally make laws to stop people from eating it.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

You know, this comment also makes me think about something else in Leviticus that is relevant. The ban against homosexuality. I didn't need to bring it up since well 1870s, they definitely had to hide their inclinations and I have Isaac being very conflicted by his sexuality. But I don't actually know if there is still a hard line in modern times like with some of the Christian denimonations (and I suspect it would vary from orthodox, reformed etc)

[a2zmom.livejournal.com]

Well, it's not just shellfish. The only sea creatures you can eat must have scales and swim freely. So no catfish either, for example.

[a2zmom.livejournal.com]

Until the late 19th century, there really only was orthodox Judaism. The other branches (reform, conservative, reconstructionist, hassidic) didn't exist and I sincerely doubt your character was have known about them.

Orthodox Judaism holds that homosexuality is a sin. However, that only applies to men. It has never had a problem with lesbianism.

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

Oh okay. XD

Probably not a lot. I just happen to live in a big Jewish area. Another town over & not so many love there. XD Aaah... Because there's not a big enough population for each town to have at least one.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

I have wondered about that no travel rule with less urban Jews and wondered if they just did their own things in their own homes or if some were less strict.

I was actually surprised at just how big the Virginia City Jewish population was in the 1870s. It changed a bit of my story.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

Yes, that I knew. I was thinking more about today (since who knows what I might come up wiht in the future.)

that is really interesting. If I remember right, Leviticus only does mention man being with man.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

Hmm okay then, I find this stuff interesting.

[a2zmom.livejournal.com]

That's correct, so the orthodox interpretation is that only men are covered by that prohibition.

Reform Judaism is extremely socially liberal, so not really an issue at all. In fact they recently came out in favor of out reach to trans gender people.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

well that's good to know about the Reformed group.

now if only I could get this story to gel and NOT be a novel....

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

Reform isn't strict at all, even some Conservative shuls are the same. You're not supposed to drive, but peeps do. You're supposed to keep kosher, but we don't. XD If there's an Orthodox population, they will find a away to build a shul. Since you need at least 10 men, they will find each other, & they also tend to remain in the same areas together. Reform & Conservative Jews are more assimilated (for want of a better word) into the population. They're less strict about how they observe they faith, so something like driving on Shabbat isn't going to bother them. Same with eating non-kosher foods. They're no different than any other immigrant group. They find each other. :D

Yeah? *wonders how big it was to change your story line*

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

That's not too surprising at all. I'm not sure any of my friends keep completely kosher. As A2Z pointed out, the different groups are more a 20th century thing. Isaac would have been orthodox even if he's not longer truly among the faithful (though he would definitely go through the motions)

Mostly it's with his living situation. Instead of living more isolated he's in a boarding house with a couple older Jewish women on what I will assume is the Jewish side of town because like you said, people find each other. I do know that Virigina City's paper was run by a Jewish man and they had a few other very high level Jewish men running things in the area.

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

*nods* He most definitely would have been orthodox. *nods*

Aaah... I see he's got a couple of yentas that probably know a nice Jewish girl who's looking for a husband & are always telling him that. ;p Nice!! :D

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

haha yes probably. I think the widowed Mrs Harmon might be a bit sweet on him but he has the eternal batchelor thing going on.

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

*laughs* How cute! :D Yup! Which makes him even more appealing, I think, cuz all those unattached ladies all think they're the one to finally get him to the alter. ;p

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

Poor Isaac. Mrs. Einhorn likes to tease him a bit but she's like 70

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

Yeah... :D Awe... that's sooo cute! :D

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

thanks

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

You're welcoem. :D