Writerly Ways

[cornerofmadness]

To me, a believable character is important. When I ran that poll a week or so ago about the detective who was so dyslexic he couldn't read reports or even road signs (a necessity for a street cop) and hadn't reported this disability to anyone, half of you agreed you couldn't buy into the other character and several of you who said you could suspend belief added in caveats that the novel didn't provide.

I always worry about believability and I do work hard to try to make the character as authentic as possible. I do a lot of research if its something I have not done myself. I've been rereading my Buffy/Angel crossover Hyperion's Son after rahirah's comments about not wanting to have a huge story left undone (I will finish this. I swear) and I was surprised at how much work I did on researching monsters, heroin culture etc. It was far more readable than I expected and I got sucked into my own story (sounds arrogant but true).

So how do you get to that believability once you've done the research. Let me tell you a story about a novel I was writing in the 90's (long gone in a computer crash AND the floppy disc corrupted. remember that issue? The only one that would corrupt would be the one with the file the hard drive just lost). The main character was based on my time in college. And someone in my writers group (it's the bad one you hear me refer to every so often) blasted me into smithereens for writing a Mary Sue (well I don't think he called it that. I'm not sure if that term predates the internet, I think it does, but it wasn't until fandom moved online that I remember hearing it). NO ONE could possibly do as much as my character did. I pointed out that I did everything that was in the story and then some. He called me a liar. I handed him a list of friends he could write and offered to photocopy pages out of my college year book (or maybe I did put them in the paper zine. I don't remember. I was in my 20's and lacking a certain level of maturity...just what you want in your medical doctor).

So what do you do when reality seems unbelievable? I wish I knew, especially as I listen to shows like Deadly Women and get ideas for villains. Some of them seem impossible too, like the background I'm giving the homeless gay teen in the would-be charity story. I worry about Aneurin being labeled a Larry Stu because he's wealthy, handsome and smart but the way the story is set up only the wealthiest could afford a Toy, he's genetically engineered for physical perfection and intelligence so I hope that counterbalances it.

I do the research because I do not want to be the one who gets laughed at post-publication for being inaccurate. I read one story that nearly made me quit in chapter one because the detective wanted to send something in to ballistics, a shot gun shell. There IS no ballistics as shotguns don't have lands and grooves, rifles and pistols do. I did enjoy the novel but for that but mistakes like that can be a real issue.

If possible, I suggest finding someone who knows the thing you're writing about and see if they'll talk with you. For instance, if I do that YA in Florida, Mom and step-dad own a funeral home. I'm talking to someone in the biz to be sure I get things right. (Speaking of which, 0_mother_0, I just read something that claimed there couldn't be an open casket because of the autopsy and I've been part of the latter. I'm not sure it would preclude the former. Does Bear have thoughts?).

I wish I could find someone to talk to in Deadwood SD about police work and Pine Ridge for Lakota culture (I'm suspecting the first will be easier than the second). No, let me rephrase, I should get off my butt and try to find...

Get a beta reader(s) to be honest with you. Do they believe the characters? The good ones will tell you and tell you where you went off the rails

And with that in mind, anyone want to do a slow edit chapter at a time of the 1930's demon hunter story. I'm within 2 chapters of finishing and I would love to get this edited through and out of here by the end of the year. Alternatively waiting to read it all at once is possible (but I'd want to edit chapter by chapter myself). I'm willing to trade for the help so poor evil_little_dog doesn't have to do the work all herself.

Also, I retooled my idea for the homeless teen story. There's a new list of baddies to look thru click here if you want to help pick one.

yearly word count - I think I'm going to have to bump this up.

98788 / 125000
(79.03%)

Comments

Wow

[idic-writer.livejournal.com]

There's a lot here!

I once created a character for a western novel--an hombre with a speech impediment. At first, I wanted him to be completely mute--but quickly found that I feared it would be too hard for the other characters (and the reader) to understand him. It really forced me to think about how people react to others they can't understand and how important body language is. Nothing ever came of that story--except that I learned A LOT.

As far as getting laughed at POST publication--er, fuck 'em. You're PUBLISHED. LOL Let them go get their own money for fucking up, right, LOL? (HUGS)

And seriously--reality IS unbelievable! Seen or read Life Of Pi? I love the line of Pi at the end in the book:

"My story is hard to believe? WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM with hard to believe?" YES! :D

Having said that, I've found research into something new, talking to people and visiting the place is just damned FUN. Do it for that, friend--not out of fear.

Have fun with it! :*

Re: Wow

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

I do find the research to be fun.

A mute character is difficult to pull off, I agree.

Well, yes and no to those who laugh. It's one thing if they just don't buy it vs. I'm made real mistakes. It's the latter I'm really trying to avoid.

[silvrethorn.livejournal.com]

I remember reading something somewhere (really helpful, I know) in which a medical examiner stressed how careful he/she was during autopsies to keep the incision lines hidden under the hairline so the corpse would be presentable for viewing at a funeral, and the "Y" incision shouldn't be visible even under an open-necked garment.

There's no excuse for poor or no research. Not doing research is lazy and disrespectful to your readers, never mind making you, the author, look like an ignoramus. I saw this in action recently when one of my writers' group members wrote about a storm on a sailing ship without doing any research whatsoever. The end result was confused, confusing, and lacked any kind of dramatic impact because this author couldn't provide descriptive details, accurate or otherwise (she couldn't picture what she was writing about). Had the rest of us not taken her to task, this author would have rushed this mess straight onto Amazon to be sold as an e-book. (Tell me again why self-published e-books have such a lousy reputation?)

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

Yeah that is my experience with autopsies. I sat in on many.

I agree. This is why I shouldn't write SF to be honest. Just watching that horrible SyFY show with Josh Rogan proves I'm shit-all at predicting where science is going. I can't picture it.

I need to stick with things I can research

I think self-pub might be my next writerly ways. This being the future of publishing worries me

[wildrider.livejournal.com]

That's precisely why I write fantasy -- I don't have to really overthink where things are going (although I really have to hand it to the people who wrote and designed ST:TNG, because every time I watch an episode, I see them using something that has since actually been invented, like the tablet computers).

Believability really does depend on who's doing the reading, too, I think; I read a great article where the author put the whole George Zimmerman thing as a potential script pitch, and how it couldn't be sold because it was so unbelievable.

I usually find your characters believable; and just because a character is rich and self-possessed shouldn't automatically make it a "Mary Sue" character. By definition a Mary Sue should be ALL great things, not just a few -- there's nothing wrong (I should HOPE) with a character who is wealthy. There are wealthy people in the world, after all -- including those who are wealthy, smart, and good-looking.

The point would be in making sure he isn't also perfect in all ways. I mean, I have Sean Patrick, for heaven's sake, and no one has yet told me he's unbelievable -- and he's wealthy, smart, good-looking, and a vampire. :)

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

Yes this is why I prefer fantasy too and yes I have the same feelings about Star Trek in general. Last month I bought S1 of DS9 and Sisko has on the Google Glasses. I just don't have a brain wired that way. Fantasy/Urban Fantasy is better for me.

There is that. When it came to the Karin Slaughter dyslexic detective, I was in a minority (a severe one at that) who couldn't buy into it.

There are two things I've noticed lately that people are QUICK to accuse people of some form of prejudice (either for not using a minority and/or using them 'wrong.') and Mary Sueism.

Aneurin isn't perfect. He's not particularly skilled in anything athletic beyond swimming. He's blind to the fact he's ignoring his lover to work for hours on end but sure as I'm sitting here, if this sells someone will call him a Stu. Oh well can't make everyone happy.

I find Sean Patrick believable btw

[wildrider.livejournal.com]

I remember reading some criticism about the TV show "Unforgettable" because "no one has a memory like that," and many people pointed out to the writer that, yes, indeed, that kind of memory DOES exist. So it all depends on what you know, I guess. I know I got ticked off at a book I was reading once because they put the Arizona Territorial Prison in such a place that the hero, leaving it, went west and south into NEW MEXICO -- and living in Arizona, I know the Territorial Prison was/is in Yuma. Going southwest from there lands you in Baja.

So basically, if SOMEONE finds your character unbelievable, it'll get tagged a Mary Sue just because that single person found it so. Doesn't make it so.

Don't get me started on racism. I saw a commercial today for a black dating site, something like "BlackConnect.com" or thereabouts, and I immediately thought, "You know, if that was 'WhiteConnect,' there'd be a LOT of outrage about it," and I know that if I said anything, I would in turn outrage people and be called a racist. So...

It's good to know Sean Patrick is believable. I even made him part Native American...

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

and my browser crashed in the middle of my answer. sigh. Yes I know what you mean about it not being believable if someone doesn't know about that. My critic refused to believe me when I pointed out I was a double major, in three bands, worked 3 school jobs, did 3 plays a year and was in a sorority, just like my character.

The geography thing is more annoying. I even get annoyed when an author puts in a note saying 'the real lay out of this city didn't fit so I changed this, that and this other thing' (Watch I'll be the one to do it next, I was so tempted to move the Sky condos in Vegas)

Yes I suppose it depends on who the one person is screaming Mary Sue (some goodreads reviewer vs major reviewer for instance)

I know I know, I had that same thought about the same commercial (and a few other things that had a function 40 years ago when minorities were excluded from things like Miss America but it's best not to go down that road I suppose).

Indeed you did, Apache, right?

[wildrider.livejournal.com]

Well, Carole Nelson Douglas has added about fourteen hotels to the Vegas Strip in her Midnight Louie series that aren't actually there, so, you know, fictional world. (In addition to the actual ones, like New York and MGM and Bellagio.) You could make a set of condos that you like in any place you like them, I suspect.

And I've added a vampire casino, the Morocco, down near Mandalay Bay.

So sometimes it works. As long as it's true to the area you're in. I mean, as good as Larry McMurtry is when it comes to the southwest, he still changed Van Buren to Broadway when talking about the "main strip through Phoenix" before I-10 was built.

Yes, Sean Patrick is part Apache.

I went even further with Matt, since his mother is half EAST Indian...

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

You know I'm bothered less by the additions (I do it often) than the removal/changing locations of thing.

My vampire bar, the Crypt Kicker, is down on Fremont.

Hey I remembered something (granted it's something non-essential character X is half apache). Between the diabetes and the age memory making ain't what it used to bem

I don't think I picked up on that with Matt or maybe just didn't read that part

[wildrider.livejournal.com]

I don't remember if Matt's parentage was mentioned in the final version of RoF -- I'm pretty sure he tells Cody at some part, but that may have been some of the scenes stripped out of that version. (He mentions his cousin Rakesh; Cody tells him there's no way he's got a cousin named Rakesh, but he does!)

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

Definitely possible it was stripped out since you said a lot had been.

[sholio]

I think the things that trip you up as a writer are the things you don't even know to ask about. Like the autopsy thing ... I don't even think I would have wondered about that. So this is something to file away in my little bag of writers' knowledge, especially if I start writing murder mysteries (which is one reason I'm reading a bunch of Christie right now -- I'm thinking about pitching a murder mystery series).

But I think there will always be things you don't even know you don't know -- stuff you don't look up because you just assume it's true. I notice that when I'm reading books set in Alaska ... most writers are fairly good at researching the broader details, but they get tripped up on stuff like snow. (Snow in the Arctic is not sticky; you can't make snowmen and snowballs out of it.)

I'm terribly fretful about getting things wrong. I try to tell myself it's okay -- everyone makes mistakes. I don't know how many published novels I've read that contained things I know are wrong. If I get something wrong, I'll just have to try to get it right the next time. But it's hard to let go.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

you make a good point. There are always assumptions made. (mysteries are my favorite but boy are they hard to write)

I would not have known that of Alaskan snow. will file that away.

it's hard to let go oh boy is it. I'm horrible at that so I try my best to get it right

[sholio]

Well, so as not to be misleading, this is a lot more true of snow in central & northern Alaska than in the southern & coastal parts. It's definitely true around Fairbanks, though. We get maybe one sticky snowfall a year, and it doesn't stay sticky very long.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

I would imagine in the south the snow would be wetter and stickier and more powdery inland and north.

Almost makes me sad I didn't set my story there and use an Inuit bogie but honestly I'm not sure how a homeless boy could survive up there (I'm sure there are homeless but I wouldn't know their needs as well as I do here where I've worked with them).

[0-mother-0.livejournal.com]

(Speaking of which, 0_mother_0, I just read something that claimed there couldn't be an open casket because of the autopsy and I've been part of the latter. I'm not sure it would preclude the former. Does Bear have thoughts?).

an autopsy has nothing to do with viewablility, unless the autopsy went horribly awry about the face and neck - even then, rebuilding tools and techniques can fix pretty much anything. now, some poor coroner techs (more and more morgues are using techs to open and take samples and the pathologist just comes in later to make rulings on stuff) can make embalming much more difficult because they cut all the vessels causing the poor embalmer to have to multiple point inject (which is a huge pain in the ass). but barry has done many, many car wrecks and other kinds of accidents (even gunshot to the head suicides) where the person was viewable after. barry is a great "hard case" solver, and has given many a family that last little bit of comfort that their loved one 'came back together' and looked 100 times better than the last time they saw them. embaming is an art science for that very reason.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

see this is exactly what I thought. I mean I had friends die in horrible accidents and they still managed to restore the face and that was YEARS ago. I'm sure it's better now.

I didn't think about the multiple point injection though nowadays if you only have one day viewing and in the ground you can have an embalming free green way to go I think.

embalming is an art. My aunt who passed from diabetese-induced cirrhosis didn't look human the last I saw her. At her funeral she looked like she did before the edema made her look like the Michelin Man

[0-mother-0.livejournal.com]

quite a few people opt for no embalming now. with refrigeration (and being found immediately after death), they can keep a body fairly well for about 3 days. barry does a lot of jewish funerals, and many are orthodox where there is no prep and the container is all wood, no nails. beautiful caskets. it's the kind I want for my cremation. I also want no embalming or makeup or being viewed.

now, there is the issue of 'tissue gas'... it's hard enough to deal with and control when they are emblamed, but even harder (if not impossible) when they aren't. in that instance, if tissue gas is present, viewing would not be recomemnded. it just spreads too fast and causes raised areas, swelling and lumpiness like rice crispies under the skin. barry said you can have one small spot on the hand, come back an hour later and it's all over. so, that could be a neat thing to throw into a story. it would teach people something interesting and icky. the bacteria that causes tissue gas is the same that is in our gut: claustridium welchii and claustridium purfungens (sp?)

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

That's what I thought. I suspect the author never looked into this at all.

yes, I had tissue gas issue with a patient. He saw me for a routine ulcer check on his foot. No redness, no leakage. I get a call at 3 AM. He's in the ER with a swollen foot. by dawn we're amputating a gas-ridden lower limb. We put it in the fridge for later dissection and by the time the day was done it was soup.

Clostridium perfringes is the word you're looking for.

Hey another friend who dropped off the radar was going to send info on some new technique that uses a chemical to reduce the body to basically soup that can be dealt with in a more green way than cremation. I was thinking of using that as a murder weapon to be honest (in a story naturally)

[0-mother-0.livejournal.com]

Barry says that process is called alkaline hydrolosis. he thinks they use sodium hydroxide at about 200-300 degrees mixed with water in a metal cylinder. it dissolves all the tissue and leaves behind bone fragments similar to cremation. the bone fragments are then removed, allowed to dry and are pulverized/processed and given back to the family, just like in cremation. (he's dictating this to me - so funny! I'm going to pm you his email so you two can banter about all this).

and eww on the foot - that poor guy!

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

ah, interesting. I did get the email thanks. I didn't realize it still needed a heat catalyst.

yeah (actually he was a nasty guy but still, this was bad. He died from it a week later because we weren't fast enough with the amputation. That stuff spreads like wildfire like that poor girl ziplining last year)

[apgeeksout.livejournal.com]

I might be up for some beta work; how long overall & how many chapters do you anticipate it'll be when you're done?

Since we haven't known each other long or worked together before, maybe we should do a test-chapter to see if we're a good fit? Let me know if you're still looking for eyeballs. :)

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

thanks. well this is novel length so it's currently around 90K and will probably (hopefully) top off at 100K (which is LONG for this kind of thing)

I've lost count of the chapters. I would be more comfortable with a chapter at a time anyhow. It's a nano novel so I have a lot of work to sand the edges before I blind someone with it.

And I know what you mean. I joined a find your beta love match thing...definitely not in love with who I ended up with.

and to be clear this is m/m erotica, urban fantasy set in 1930. if you're still interested you can PM me your email.

thanks

[priarani560.livejournal.com]

Great post. I think it's good if you can enjoy the research part of the journey too.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

thanks and yes you need to enjoy the research. I would not write about something that bored me in the research process