So it turns out I'm sort of Jewish.

[cornerofmadness]

(yes it's the same post as Jana's. I felt like copying rather than linking)

So, a couple years ago we found the paperwork on my Dad's paternal grandfather and grandmother and it showed them not coming from Croatia as we've always thought but rather came over on a ship (I forget the name at the moment) where the entire passenger compliment was listed as Hungarian/ Romanian Jews. We wondered if that was an error or an oversimplification by a bored clerk because as far as we knew my great-grandparents were Catholic like the rest of us.

We noodled around trying to find out more. Nothing. Then when I was home for Christmas last year a cousin had come across Great granddad's birth certificate which also listed him as Hebrew. So now we were on a hunt for more. My brother and I both have been talking about doing the DNA thing (I was going to do it last year but unexpected expenses came up and I didn't).

Corpse Powder in part has a Jewish character because I was thinking about this (and trying to get a little more diversity in my MCs). I wanted to learn more about the culture. I'm always curious about things like this. Isaac's world in the 1800s had different challenges but they would have been familiar to my great-grandfather and definitely his father.

So today we got the DNA results, 30 % Italian (unsurprising as both grandmothers on either side were from Italy and we even know the exact towns on that) 30% from the Eastern European area, 15% from the Western European area (which included Northern Italy so yeah, no surprise there plus Mom's grandma told her often back home she was Austrian, Croatian and German without ever moving from her home) but 22% is Eastern European Jew.

So there it is. Great Granddad was most likely Jewish so now comes the questions. Why did no one ever know this? Was it hidden because of persecution? Did he fall for a Catholic girl and convert? A little of both? Was Great Grandma a Jew as well. I know next to nothing about Tonka other than her name.

Given how well this was hidden, this may be all I'll ever know. I'm not even sure we know where they came from in Europe (seeing as we thought it was Croatia and it was more likely Hungary). None of my dad's family had any clue.

I think what surprised me more was there were zero African genes found. Italy being pretty close to Africa with close trade ties for centuries I thought there'd be a few more.

I will probably do my own DNA as I take after my Italian side more and my brother the Croatian. Granted they'll be similar but I also want to know the Neanderthal content.

I'm half tempted to bring this up at Christmas when Prejudice Girl and Hate-filled Husband are around. I probably won't since they're about the only family Aunt S2 has (and she doesn't like them either) and they are good friends with my parents and treat them well. I swear my parents think I'm making it up about the things Prejudice Girl said that one Christmas but let's leave it at they think republicans are too liberal. Still, the temptation is great.

Day 12 - 196 words

Comments

[kerkevik-2014.livejournal.com]

Worth remembering that Croatia was ruled from Hungary during the later period of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and some areas would have been disputed over the centuries. Very few people from the Balkans could, if they dared to investigate, would find themselves as racially 'pure' as they'd like to believe. Witness the leader of Hungary's virulently anti-semitic right-wing party who within Obama's presidency became leader; discovered his paraents were Jews, from whom he'd been stolen/orphaned/given up by; finally becoming a campaigner for racial tolerance.

kerk

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

This is very true. Like I said one of my great grandmothers watched the borders ebb and flow around her house as a child. Even knowing that we should have been fully half Italian we expected that number to be lower given how fluidly humans move about (and it was)

I did not know that about Hungary's right wing party leader (honestly politics make me anxious so I don't look at those stories closely). That's very interesting though.

[kerkevik-2014.livejournal.com]

If you're interested I can try and hunt down some links for you.

I recall a series on the Gaelic Language channel here in Scotland, BBC Alba (subtitled of course), where they did DNA tests on various people across the country. One man, who lived in the Western Isles, believed he descended partly from stranded Spanish sailors from the Armada; partly because of his complexion I seem to recall; also his family had been there a very long time, and may have had Norse ancestry as well.

The results seemed to suggest that his family line stretched back to the very first Humans to repopulate the British Isles after the Ice Ages; with no discernable connection to the Armada at all.

Making everybody else an immigrant I fancy :-)

kerk

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

Sure if you don't mind.

That's fascinating. And a reason I've never understood drawing lines between us and them. Down to the genes, we're all a mix of something and the rest is just a construct.

[scribesds.livejournal.com]

You know, I never realised you could tell nationality from your DNA. That's fascinating!

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

It's not perfect and of course a lot of country boundaries change all the time but yeah from your neck of the woods I have exactly 1% of my genes (and actually they tagged it over Wales so...)

Asia is much harder to tell apart than Europeans. Their genes are much more similar so it's not easy to say hey that's Chinese or Thai or Japanese. There is more diversity in European genes

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

I find it fascinating that you were able to learn so much about your family! I wonder if your grandpa actually converted, or pretended to, cuz of the War. I used to work with this woman whose mother is a survivor, & she told a story about how her mother & grandmother, learned to say the Rosary, so that if they ever were stopped by the Nazis, they could take out their Rosary beads & pray for them without raising any suspicion. It's possible his family was so well "hidden" that he married a nice Catholic girl & by the time it was okay to be openly Jewish, no one would have believed it if he or his family had said anything, or if he was young enough at the time, it became so ingrained in him that he had to hide or was NOT Jewish, that he simply forgot & it became lost in your family history.

You know, I think you having the makings of a wonderful story based on your family history! :D

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

I had patients who were survivors who told me similiar things. This grandfather came over before the Nazis (I'm thinking late 1800s early 1900s) but certainly still at a time of high prejudice. I'm not sure I'll ever know if he actually converted or pretended to or was the Catholism completely the influence of the italian side of the family

you're probably right about that

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

Wow! I find it amazing the things people did to survive.

Oh okay. Yeah... *sighs* It could be, or he actually did convert to be more welcomed into that side of the family. I just hope his family didn't act like he was dead when he married the Shiksa. XD Intermarriage would have been FROWNED upon back then. Even now, it happens. I know this guy, who came from an orthodox family, my sister was good friends with his sister, & he liked my one friend a lot & would have dated her & eventually married her when he was out of HS & college, but she wasn't Jewish, so he sadly didn't date at all in HS. Which makes me glad your grandpa found your granny & they DID get married! :D

*nods* Maybe one day we'll see it in print. :D

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

It is what some of them managed to live through.

Yes, I am aware of that (Catholics were much the same and some still are). No one from that generation or even the one that came after him are alive and my dad and his cousins are pretty surprised so unless letters or a diary surfaces somewhere I'm sure I'll never know

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

Yeah!

Yeah? I didn't know that. *sighs* I hate when that happens, when those who knew the family stories are no longer around to tell them. Hopefully something will turn up.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

yeah that's one of the reasons we were trying gather these stories

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

*nods* Someone should record them as well as have those who know them write them down. I bet those are some amazing stories1

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

Some of the are. Some are scary

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

Yeah? o.0

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

let's just say there may or may not have been Mafia involvement of some family members

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

WOW!

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

Yeah the ATF might or might not have arrested one grandma for bootlegging during prohibition

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

Yeah? That's kinda cool! :D

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

yeah.s he always swatted a black hand member out of her father's store with a broom.

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

Yeah? She must have been a hoot! I wish I could have met her! :D

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

I wish I had met her then. Apparently depression and anxiety comes to me from her side of the family. When I knew her she was a homebody to the point of nearly being agorophobic. Back then she dated gangsters and won dance contests. I can't believe she's been gone nearly 20 years already.

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

Yeah! The stories she could have told!! Yeah? Wow! That's a long time to be gone.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

it is but she was nearly 90 when she died. Most of her siblings made 90. Her youngest sister is still alive. She's 97 I think

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

Aaah... That's really awesoem, they all lived such long lives!My great granny lived to be 95, I think & her sister was 97, or it could be the other way around. XD I really don't remember & I never met either of them. May your Aunty live to be 100! :D

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

Thank you. Both sides of my family tends to live forever

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

You're welcoem! That's pretty cool! :D

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

It is

[kiramaru7.livejournal.com]

Yeah. :D

[dragonydreams.livejournal.com]

That is very cool. Sad that that part of your family history was lost.

I remember being upset when I found out I wasn't 100% Russian Jewish. Some of my family had been from the area where the Russia/Poland border kept changing, so there's some Polish mixed too. Still 100% Jewish, though.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

It is sad and even sadder because I think that it was lost for some really bad reasons.

And there's absolutely zero Russian in me. I wish I could find out some more but I'm doubting it

[seta-suzume.livejournal.com]

Even if it may remain a mystery, it's still kind of cool, I think!

My parents and I have all done a DNA thing and everyone's about as Western European as expected, ha ha (for me it's 76% Great Britain, 5% Scandinavia, 5% West European accounting for most of it- and the roots I was aware of were Belgian, English, and Norwegian, so what I expected). Seeing the little trace amounts of 2% Eastern European and other unexpected segments of Europe was the most exciting part- makes me wonder who those people were (and how long ago? seeing as we know more about certain parts of the family than others).

I guess because you do know who connects you to certain type of background it's even more mysterious...! ...Just enough information to speculate a little...

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

It is cool and yeah will probably always be a mystery.

I was rather hoping for Scandinavia (to account for the red hair). You do have to wonder about the little outliers, who were those ancestors, how did they ge t into the mix.