Fannish Thoughts

[cornerofmadness]

I've been reading a lot of fanfic this month (Yay to free printing) I've noticed some of us have a tendency to write only a handful of characters or one single ship and rarely venture beyond that. Others of us writing just about anything.

This is hardly news, I know. Some, however, I'm noticing write exactly the same story again and again, they just change the setting (especially true of the AU though I rarely read those because without the supernatural I just don't care). In fact, it's gotten to the point with some of the shippy writers I know, that I'm just bored with their new stuff since it's exactly the same as their old stuff, just a new setting. This is especially true of the B/A'ers and the Spuffy writers (not all of them. I'm most assuredly not saying that). I think others might have noticed this as well. I wonder if people think the same of some of my stuff.

So this has gotten me curious (and I'm sure this has been discussed before), what do people think of my stuff. Am I successful in giving the same ships new and interesting story lines when I write them or are people thinking 'oh god, Spike/Dru again?' So...

A) do you write only one or two character and if so why? What is it about them

B) do you prefer writing lots of characters and if so why?

C) do you stick with one ship or do you like to play with any.

D) If you're the one or two shipper kind of writer how do you plan around the I'm gonna bore my readers with the same romantic plot reprocessed yet again? Or do you just really not care and just write for your own enjoyment (well we all should do that but you know what I mean)

As for me, I like writing groups of characters better than just one or two. That said, I do have my preferences. Before Connor showed up, I did a lot of Spike and Dru. After Connor, exploring his relationship with Angel and pairing him off with women I think work became a focus. I still like doing a variety when I can though. Spike and Dru always appealed to me. They're such wicked fun. Connor is an archetype I've been writing for 20 years now so he was a given to appeal to me.

When it comes to the ships, I hopefully make the stories different in two ways, varying the setting and the people invovled. This is especially fun to do with Spike/Dru and Darla/Angelus because I love historical research and I can put them just about anywhere. Secondly I prefer to make the ship the background of the story and the focus something else, usually the bad guy. Hopefully it works.

Thoughts?

Comments

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Hmm...I've only written about three fanfics in my whole life, and they were really loooong and WIP-py. But I guess that's my style, then. All of them contain a whole gaggle of Buffyverse characters, with emphasis on one or a few main characters. And two of the three fics were group efforts so I didn't have total control over who appeared. The only common characters in all of them were Angel(us), Spike, and Dru, although again with the caveat it wasn't just my choice in 2 out of 3 of them.

All of you-all are just more prolific than me!

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

Prolific? I just realized I've done over 100 stories in about 5 years. Wow.

I would say that in TD at any rate you handle various characters well and with the obvious emphasis on the core four. You're up to 16 there so that's not too shabby either (me, I'll consider screenplay series fanfic too)

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Well, I was referring to my screenplay series as fan-fic. Otherwise, I'd only have written *one* fanfic, which was a group effort on the Fanged Four during the summer after Season 6 of BtVS.

I'd say you're plenty prolific. You just keep spinning out the new stories all the time. And the drabbles!? That ought to take you well over 100.

[keith5by5.livejournal.com]

A) do you write only one or two character and if so why? What is it about them

My fics concentrate on Faith\Xander partially because I sympathise with them the most and also because I flat out like them both. I use other chars too though.

B) do you prefer writing lots of characters and if so why?

I enjoy writing Angel because there's so much depth to the char and enjoy his adversarial ship with Xander and Giles.

I enjoy writing Giles because he's got his interesting past and I enjoy writing a fic with him bringing out his parental side.

I like Wes because of his 3 dimenisonal char. I love Cordy for her biting humour and good heart. I like Connor because of his redemption (although not much before).

The only ones I miminise are Buffy and Spike because I think they're both flat out dislikable.

I also tend to avoid Anya and Oz because they always seemed to be extensions of people, rather than chars in their own right.

C) do you stick with one ship or do you like to play with any.

I've put Faith with Jonathan or usually Xander.

I've put Xander with Cordelia, Kendra, or usually Faith.

D) If you're the one or two shipper kind of writer how do you plan around the I'm gonna bore my readers with the same romantic plot reprocessed yet again? Or do you just really not care and just write for your own enjoyment (well we all should do that but you know what I mean)

Romantic plots tend to have little with what do I write, I prefer to write intrigue rather than the 'oh Spike\Angel\Xander you're so dreamy' stuff I see around.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

I prefer to write action myself. So far it's about a 70/30 split action vs ship in the responses so far.

I enjoy Giles for much the same reason and would like to write him more

Faith and Jonathan? Okay...interesting. You know, I'm still irritated over what they did to his character probably because out of all the characters on the show the three I knew best were Cordelia (and I still hate my Cordelia to this day), Jonathan (he was the guys I hung out with in school) and Willow during her school days (She is me)

[keith5by5.livejournal.com]

I love using Giles to give Faith and Xander the father-figure they never had.

Yeah, Jonathan turning bad didn't make the slightest sense in the world. Andrew was a self-obessed jerk who didn't realise what he was doing. Warren was an evil bastard. And Jonathan was just lonely.

Faith's brash. Jonathan's shy. Faith's in command, Jonathan's a follower. Faith needs someone who'd be gentle with her, Jonathan needs someone to bring him out of his shell.

Plus, it gives hope to geeks the world over.

[rahirah]

The presence of shipper fic was one of the big differences I noticed when I moved from writing EQ to BtVS. Sure, back in EQ fandom there was the Obligatory Recognition Story, but there wasn't this huge, huge emphasis on stories which existed mainly to prove that X and Y were meant for one another OMG. Maybe that's just because we were all writing our own characters, and had no need to prove anything, and no need to 'fix' anything.

I very seldom write pure romance. I write action-adventure stories that have romances in them, which I think is an important distinction. Pure romance is all about boy meets girl (or boy, or small furry creature from Alpha Centauri). There are only so many ways for boy to meet girl. For a lot of romance readers I understand that this is part of the appeal: you know the story will follow a familiar and comforting formula, and the fun is in seeing the embellishments an author can give that formula.

What I'm more interested in is stories in which the characters learn something about themselves. Very often a romance is part of this learning process, but it's not the only part; there are always other problems the protagonist must work out. This also allows me to do something that a pure romance writer finds difficult: to take the relationship past the limeral phase and explore how two people relate in the long term; what compromises they must make and what lines they must draw, and how relationships succeed or fail on the strength of these. I'm also interested in questions of how an individual can balance social responsibility with personal gratification, and the questions of whether the ends justify the means, and if so, when and how?

I've written very short stories with only one or two characters in them, but I prefer to use multiple characters even if I'm only focusing on one or two. The character-specific nature of a good deal of shipper fic can foster an air of intimacy, but it can also feel claustrophobic after awhile. If I'm trying to show that two characters can be a successful couple, I think that necessitates showing how they deal with other characters and the rest of the world both singly and as a couple. To isolate them is artificial, IMO. Besides, if I want to explore a character fully, I can't only write about the way they relate to a sexual or romantic partner. I need to see their friendships, their rivalries, their co-workers, and their family, too.

I've focused mainly on Buffy/Spike, but I've also dealt with Anya/Xander, Willow/Tara, and Willow/Kennedy, with a lot of references to historical ships like B/A. Plus I love including subtext--I'm not a Connor/Spike shipper, but I got a kick out of the fact that some scenes I wrote for the two of them converted someone else into being one. I'm a series writer, so a lot of the problems with repeating plotlines don't apply to me, since I'm dealing with, say, one version of Willow and Tara over several years rather than many different versions.

I've noticed that if I write a ship, I get more interested in it. Tara and Willow bored me on the show, but I've gotten quite interested in the version I'm writing. Of course, that could be because I've given them some conflicts to work out.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

I noticed the same thing in moving from Pern and EQ to this. We had our own original characters more or less there and here, using an OC is tatamount to committing major sins. (Mary Sue vs OC is another discussion however)

I very seldom write pure romance. I write action-adventure stories that have romances in them, which I think is an important distinction

Agreed and I tend (at least I think so) to do the same thing. It's certainly one of the reasons I read your stuff even though I'm not a Spuffy shipper really. You give more than just the romance which interests me less (romance is a genre I wish I could love and read and write just for the 8 billion a year market but sadly...)

What I'm more interested in is stories in which the characters learn something about themselves.
Same here. I'm not sure I always succeed in this when writing however.

Besides, if I want to explore a character fully, I can't only write about the way they relate to a sexual or romantic partner. I need to see their friendships, their rivalries, their co-workers, and their family, too.

This is a very good point. It's something that really interests me. I think in some of these repetitive stories that I'm complaining about these things get sidelined or worse, especially in Buffy/(Angel/Spike) Willow/Dawn becomes a distraction, Xander becomes a total moron who's in the way, ditto Giles etc etc. That turns me off

I am looking forward to seeing your Connor/Spike interaction. Given Connor's feelings about vampires (and this goes for Xander too) I just can't see them as a ship though I have friends who do.

I find getting interested in a ship also gives me insights into character traits that I might not have noticed before

[rahirah]

I can't see them as a ship either, though more because they're too much alike to strike shippy sparks for me. And I just don't find Connor physically attractive in the least--VK MIGHT be getting to look adult enough that I'd find him attractive these days, but the teenage-waif look puts me off completely.

[sp23.livejournal.com]

a) Until recently, I only wrote about Spike. I've now expanded a little into the Stargate: Atlantis verse and I'm writing McKay/Sheppard slash. As to what it is about these men? Well, they're interesting. Spike has grown and changed so much since we first met him in School Hard, that he's a very versatile character. And he's fun. With McShep it's the dynamic between these two men - they snark, they flirt, they're best friends and heroes and they're damned hot together. And they're fun.

b) When I write Spike, I try to include all the cast in the story, even if they don't feature in many (or any) scenes by themselves. I'm most comfortable just writing my character's story and not including a bunch of 'b' stories in the mix.

c)Hmmm, well I *was* exclusively writing Spuffy. I have played around with shipping Spike with Angel, and I did both Spike/Xander and Spike/Wesley friendship fics that I think came out okay.

With SGA, I'm only writing McShep and really have no interest in other 'ships.

d) Yeah, the 'writing the same damned thing' all the time is my greatest fear, especially when it comes to sex scenes. I do think that because I'm not the most prolific of writers that my stories aren't too repetitious. And I'm way too new to the SGA fandom to worry about writing the same plot over and over - well, except for the sex. *g*

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

My parents watch SGA. I don't have cable (well soon yay!) I'll have to look and see who you're talking about.

I agree, Spike is versatile and one of the most changed characters on either show. Sex scenes...you know, there's another whole topic for discussion. A lot of people don't do them well, including me. There's only so much you can do. There's only so many orifices and toys you have to use. I think the key is to not go overly long. I've read some fic that is 100+ pages and you get these 10 page sex scenes shoved right in the middle of the action every chapter and it drags a story down

I hope this helps.

[aaronlisa.livejournal.com]

a) I tend to write multiple characters. Lately Willow's been a character that I focus on but I will try almost every character at least once.
b) I prefer to write a lot of characters so I don't fall into the trap of writing the same story over and over again. If I am writing a story about B/A it can't have the same plot as a story about Willow/Angel or Angel/Spike. And although my favourite ship is the Willow/Angel one, when I first started reading I found that a lot of writers would eventually write the same story over & over again.
c) I don't stick with one ship, I've tried a lot of different ones. At one point I'd write any ship. Now I do tend to stick with a few favourites, but I will get plot bunnies for others and I will write them. But lately I've been writing a lot of W/A, how long that lasts I don't know.
d) To avoid the same plot over and over, I try to change certain things, like the season that the story is set in. I try to do things that I haven't seen before in the ship. When I write W/A I really try to avoid the fluff, and the Buffy bashing (sometimes it works to make Buffy the bad guy but I try not to outright bash her, I try to show why she's the bad guy.) And I try to work with different seasons and have different episodes as the starting point.

From what I've read of your stuff, I wouldn't say that it's always the same. You sometimes have the same themes, but who doesn't. Even writers like Stephen King have the same themes from book to book. But the stories that I've read have always been different.

Re: I hope this helps.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

yes you are definitely one of the writers I was thinking about when I was thinking variety. Might want to check out Dragonydreams for Will/Angel (though I think you already do) I should go look at your Willow stuff more.

And thanks. Yes, there is always a bit of repetition of theme but then as you said, there are others where that's all you get

[marenfic.livejournal.com]

As you know, I love the B/A but less than half of my fics are strict B/A. I would call myself a Buffy character writer first and foremost, with Faith thrown in as a distant second-place character contender. I'll write Buffy with just about anyone and I've managed to write her with Angel, Faith, Cordelia, Wesley, Gunn, Tara, and Spike. Because I think my writing strengths lie in portraying character emotions, I tend to be a 'shippier writer rather than a plot writer. I think in general I write things that are very tightly focused on one or maybe two characters and I'm sure that my writing style makes things seem "familiar" at times even when the premise is different than other things I've written.

Now you tend to play to your strengths when you write-- and that's developing a plot, a bad guy, and moving the characters toward a resolution. When I want a plotty story, you are one of the writers I turn to. When I want a shippy or emotionally focused fic, I go to other writers (and if I want my B/A heart ripped out of my chest, I go to chrisleeoctaves). I think we all get caught up in "themes" because of the way we see the characters and that can start looking alike even when the premise or setting of a story changes. When I read your Connor and your Connor/Angel, I know what I'm going to get. I don't think that's a bad thing-- I'm sure the same can be said of my Buffy or of any other writer's favorite character. It's the things that surround the character/characters that can make a fic unique. So you write your characters in different settings and I write Buffy in different 'ships and hopefully people don't get too bored :)

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

I think that you're one of the few writers that I read who'll ship Buffy with just about anyone and do it believeably as well. I think it IS possible to not get overly repetitive even if you're doing as you do, the shippy fic and you do handle the emotions well. You're one of the fanfic writers I'd like to see do original fic and go somewhere with it.

It's the things that surround the character/characters that can make a fic unique. So you write your characters in different settings and I write Buffy in different 'ships and hopefully people don't get too bored :)

I agree with this. And really I'm glad to hear I do plot well. I like writing mysteries when I'm not doing this. Plot's important. One day maybe I'll surprise you all and do something unexpected with Connor (I killed him once, really I did. Okay he was still an infant...)

[dknightshade.livejournal.com]

Very interesting questions. I hope you don't mind my jumping in, even though I've only written a couple of Buffy fics.

But I have found in other fandoms that when people write the same ships or the same characters all the time, it does tend to get repetitive for me. Even really good writers. But maybe that's just my personality because I don't stick to one set of characters either. Looking at the many stories you have (and I apologize that I've only gotten to maybe 15 or 20% of them) it looks like you tend to mix it up with the different characters.

A) do you write only one or two character and if so why? What is it about them

Nope. There are characters I love and characters who are interesting, but I get bored writing from the same perspective all the time.

B) do you prefer writing lots of characters and if so why?

Oh yes, definitely. Not all at once, mind you, but in turn. I go through phases. My 4 Buffy fics are all from different perspectives and feature different characters. Not that that's that hard when there are only 4 of them. But in my other fandoms, I tend to do the same thing. Even in the fandom with only 4 or 5 real characters, I still rotate around and hit different POVs and featured characters. I just get bored otherwise. I'll find myself fixated on a character/pairing for a while and then poof, it's on to something else. In part I think writing is fun because it's interesting to try to understand different people's perspectives. So while I may relate to one character over another, it isn't interesting enough for me to just focus on that one person. I like to try to get into other characters' heads as well. It's more of a challenge for me that way.

C) do you stick with one ship or do you like to play with any.

I'm not a real big shipper. There are few pairs I really like, but then I tend to rotate between writing ship and writing gen. In fact, I've been on a kick with one ship for the last month or two and I realized yesterday that I'm now over it. For a while anyway. I'll be back, but I'm definitely at the point where I need to do something else.

D) If you're the one or two shipper kind of writer how do you plan around the I'm gonna bore my readers with the same romantic plot reprocessed yet again? Or do you just really not care and just write for your own enjoyment (well we all should do that but you know what I mean)

I'm not in this boat, but I would think that trying to grow them would maybe help this. Relationships change over time. People get to different levels of comfort with each other, fall in and out of love, have hard times and fluffy/easy times. It seems like if you could move your characters through different phases like that, it might remove some of the 'same old, same old' feel. But I think you might have to do that over the course of a series or in the case of ships like Darla and Angelus, like you say, show them in different time periods of their lives. Those two really did change alot in their relationship to one another.

But really, I think it's just one of those personal preference things. I also know people who never seem to tire of the same ships or the same characters and don't seem to get bored by always reading them. *shrugs*

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

I don't mind you jumping in at all .
But I have found in other fandoms that when people write the same ships or the same characters all the time, it does tend to get repetitive for me. Even really good writers. But maybe that's just my personality because I don't stick to one set of characters either.

I think this might be it for me as well. I'm reading one now. I like the author. She's a friend but it's like eyeroll, oh look B/Angelus...again. I've found myself making excuses not to read even though the quality is very good.

I think I'm a lot like you in how I approach my writing and how I like to handle multiple characters. It was one of the reasons I wrote so many ficathons last year, I needed out of my rut

[dragonydreams.livejournal.com]

I prefer to write shipper stories, mostly revolving around Willow. Why do my ships revolve around Willow? She was my favorite character on the show - the one I identified with the most.

I started out as an exclusely Willow/Giles shipper, but as my reading expanded into other pairs, I found myself writing some of them too. Most of my new pairings have been inspired by challenges I've seen posted to various groups - one that wouldn't work with Giles.

I hope that my storylines aren't too similar, but I know that some probably are. I try to make the situations that the pair is involved in different on some level. Sometimes I try to create a more involved plot, but I admit that a well thought out plot is not something I'm good at creating. So I stick to what's safer - bringing 2 characters together.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

As much as I like Willow I find her harder to write and oddly enough I don't read much of her fanfic. In fact, pretty much just yours. So far the storylines aren't too similiar

[bashipforever.livejournal.com]

A) Generally I write Buffy. Mostly because I find her really easy to write. She lives in my head and wont' go away no matter how much chocolate I offer her. She was always my favorite character on the show.

b) I find if I've got a story idea I can write most characters with some kind of confidence. At least to me they sound like the characters on the show. But I can't take just any character and write them at anytime like I can Buffy.

C) I primarly stick with B/A (you know this) but I do like to play with other ships from time to time.

D) I'm sure I do bore my readers to death from time to time (possibly all the time) I do write for my own enjoyment but I certainly want the reader to be happy with it. With being a BA shipper I find sometimes it's hard to come up with a plot that hasn't been done to death. For example I'd love to write something BA around Normal Again but I know it's been done over and over and over again. If I'm going for something outside of the slice in time type of fic (you mean with an actual plot? OMG!) I often look at the episodes and see maybe if there was a thread Joss & Co dropped or a direction I can go. Honestly I'm a bad bad writer. I don't tend to think of plots. They kind of come to me or don't. And that probably didn't answer your question.

I love your stuff because (particularly the Old School) is just like watching (reading) and episode. I'm interested to see where you're taking it and I don't think your stuff is just the same thing re-processed. I think you do give them interesting storylines and put them in interesting situations. I definitely think that putting the ship in the background and making the bad guy the focus works really well. It's the thing about your writing that I envy the most.

That's my opinion on it all :D

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

yes, being primarily B/A would give you one of the hardest rows to hoe since B/A and Spuffy have to be the two most written ships. I think looking for drop threads in canon is a good way of going about it.

And yay to the not boring you. I find using action and adventure a good way to mix up even a romance plot

[a2zmom.livejournal.com]

a) I haven't written a lot of fic, so so far each one try to expand a bit. The one's I've written so far have either been Angel or Buffy centric simply because I hear their voices the loudest. I'm currently writing a story with other characters in it because that's one of the things I want to work on.

b) see a!

c) In my longer non-drabble fic, I've only written B/A but even that tends to be from adistance, so to speak. I rarely write them together actually. I guess I more interested in how they are figuring out what they want from life.

d) except for maybe one fic, I don't really write romance. I try to avoid wish fulfillment and write the truth of the characters. I don't know that I suceed.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

Actually i never thought of it that way but it's true, you do tend to keep a distance between them. Interesting... I think it's some of the wish fulfillment that I'm disillusioned with. As for succeeding, I think we all doubt our stories a little. To be honest i'm distrustful of a story that the author can't stop crowing about.

[myfeetshowit.livejournal.com]

I think you already know how highly I think of your work. I make no bones of being a Spike girl but the reason for that is that he is a character that inspires so many different views from so many different people. Your Spike isn't mine - that is why I come to read yours. Along the way, I've grown to like your Connor (that is high praise, because generally I don't care for him). You are one of the authors that I feel has fresh perspective on all the characters. Even when I don't totally agree with your take, you make me rethink and not be satisfied with what I've already seen in the role. I value that greatly.

I'm one of the non 'ship writers. I started writing a year ago this month and since I'm not a fast writer I don't feel I've even begun to explore the facets of Spike.

I think I do come at my stories from a different angle than most. I pick something I want to learn about the craft of writing -- narrative distance, pacing, the hero's journey -- and base my story around that.

My first fic was post NFA based around several images I had created of Spike crossing over with Dr. Who, Lassie, Miss Piggy, Barnabas Collins, Riddick, Kramer - you name it. It was pure farce, written as a series of emails and ended up being the story of how nepotism was the real culprit in bringing an end to Wolfram & Hart.

My second I won't speak about. It was my attempt to do a 'ship.

My third 'The Sorrowful Tale of Miss Kitty Fantastico' was a Spike/Dawn friendship and fashioned on a Victorian morality play.

My current WIP has the First bringing Spike and Tara to Wonderland in an attempt to recreate something similar to Original Sin so he can take over that Universe.

The plan for my next is to have Spike leave Sunnydale when he is chipped and strike off on his own. It will deal with the consequences of his absence in the season climaxes of S4 & S5 and I'm thinking of trying for something very dark - in the vein of 'The Stand'. I might even pair him in this fic but I haven't decided who it will be.

I'm repeating a plot element in my last, my current and the next fic - the events of Buffy's death in S5 are an underlying cause of the storyline. I'm doing that because I want to make myself come up with something totally different based on the same causal event.

I doubt I will ever be an incredibly popular author but I hope to have something for those people who are looking for something different. Meanwhile, I'm having fun and I'm learning a lot about writing.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

Your Spike isn't mine - that is why I come to read yours. Along the way, I've grown to like your Connor (that is high praise, because generally I don't care for him). You are one of the authors that I feel has fresh perspective on all the characters. Even when I don't totally agree with your take, you make me rethink and not be satisfied with what I've already seen in the role. I value that greatly.

Interesting the way you're doing that. Actually I've done the same thing with Home and came up with many different ways it could have gone. I'll have to go look up your SPike/Dawn
Thanks. I'm glad you feel that way especially about Connor. I hear that a lot. I'd be curious to hear when you don't quite agree with my take just to see what yours is.