Looking at writing through the eyes of a reader

[cornerofmadness]

I'm really curious to see people's thoughts on this, especially the parents on the list. I'm not a huge fan of dystopias but if you like fantasy and sci-fi you end up getting exposed to a lot of them.

I recently finished The Hunger Games and I just started Unwind , both SF YA novels, both dystopias. They're both well written but in the back of my mind there are these thoughts that make me not enjoy the story to the fullest and I think, as a writer, this goes back to world-building.

Synopsis - Hunger Games: Kids aged 12-18 are selected yearly for the Hunger Games, a reality show where kids fight to the death and the winner (and the district sacrificing said kid) get rewarded rather handsomely. The problem here is we never know why North AMerica has been left in ruins(in fact that's mentioned only on the dust jacket and a few crytpic hints of toxic areas). The world building never explains how these games arouse or WHAT they do other than provide entertainment.

Unwind: Kids aged 13-18 can be 'unwound' if their parents decide to do it. There are three pov characters, each highlighting the most common way to get selected to be an Unwind. Connor, who was a problem child. Riza who is a ward of the State and just wasn't talented enough to warrent further training. Lev, who was born to be a tithe to the church. Unwinding (as the adult adamantly scream) is NOT murder. That said the kids are 'unwound' i.e. completely dissected and their parts donated. I haven't read enough to see how the world building goes in this one.


Is it me or is it somehow unbelievable that we'd get to this state? I know I'm judging this from a lower middle class, relatively safe living in a more or less stable country. I know there are countries were kids this age go to war or are slaughtered wholesale. I know kids right now are being sold into the sexual slave trade and in the past people, such as the Incans, may in fact sacrificed their kids to the gods.

That said, it bothers me. Most parents I know are attached to their children in ways I can barely begin to understand, not having a kid myself. I have such trouble seeing parents blithely giving them over to fight to the death or worse, just sign them over when they're too much trouble and/or as a donation to charity before they're even born. I've seen parents go to any length to protect their children even when they've done something really wrong. Right now most religions do want to protect children (to the point of interfering with reproductive rights) What has to happen that both the Christian and Jewish faiths suddenly think it's alright to offer up your kids as part of the offering plate? (maybe this story will explain that)

Has anyone else found this problem? You have such compelling writing but the underlying premise is so very hard to swallow. Also note both novels have won numerous YA awards so they are embraced whole heartedly. Still, in the back of my mind there's this voice going, I just don't see this happening. I don't WANT to see it happen.

Comments

[a2zmom.livejournal.com]

Throughout history, the poorest in society have often sold their children because there was no other option. Back story would be nice o see how it came to this point, but it's not impossible to believe.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

right, and i think the 'sold because there is no option' IS the premise for Hunger Games but since that isn't included in the world building, you're left wondering

Unwinding your kids, so far there is options. It seems to be a joyous way to rid yourself of a problem child without feeling like they're totally dead (and already one adult brother to Lev is completely against it)

[a2zmom.livejournal.com]

They sound line interesting premises.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

don't get me wrong Hunger Games was well written and so far so is Unwind. I don't want to say I enjoyed it but it was intriguing but it needed just a little more world building to convince me of what it was selling (H.G.'s that is. Unwind is starting to show adults who are NOT copectic with this)

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Let me guess. Neil Schusterman. He's dark.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

you guessed right. this is my first by him. So far yes it's enjoyable but the premise is a stretch for me

Hunger Games is by Nancy Collins

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Some of his stuff is quite good. I like The Dark Side of Nowhere and Downsiders.

[evil-little-dog.livejournal.com]

I agree with lejlkweit as to wanting my fiction to remain fictional. The idea of something like this happening in North America would be really bizarre to me - I'd want more backstory to explain why this is going on, even if it's a little history story as to why.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

I think THAT is what really bothers me. I need background for something so out of touch with how life has been going for the past century or so. No matter how well written, if the world building foundation is missing then something is just that, missing

[evil-little-dog.livejournal.com]

Unless it's a completely fantasy story and that's the way Things Have Always Been. Then it's okay.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

well yes or at least give a decent reason for how this came to be in our world

[evil-little-dog.livejournal.com]

*nod nod nod*

[bashipforever.livejournal.com]

I read The Hunger Games and while I enjoyed it a lot I also had the same sort of feeling you did. A parent would die before they allowed this to happen to their kids and that's exactly the option in that book I think. It's like The Lottery and I'm guessing it's a result of being 'raised' that way. I'm pretty sure in the hunger games the world has been that way for a while. Backstory would have been nice though.

The second one, I think I'd have more of an issue with especially considering it's in North America in a society that traditionally has not seen this as acceptable.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

It reminded me of the lottery meets lord of the flies. I did want more backstory. I thought the thing was well done but it just felt off.

I'm not into Unwind enough to know if it'll tell me HOW this became acceptable (though within 50 pages I've met 3 adults who do not view it as acceptable)

[bashipforever.livejournal.com]

Yeah I'm hoping maybe in the sequel there will be more backstory. it's out but I haven't read it yet.

If it were a closed community sort of like Stepford Wives (which immediately is where I jumped when you mentioned the premise) I might could see it but a world wide/nation wide thing? There better be some backstory telling how it got that way.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

my librarian really liked the sequel. I need a break before trying it

yeah, i'll be very disappoitned if I don't get more backstory in the other novel

[sp23.livejournal.com]

I haven't read Hunger Games, though I've heard about it, and, yes, as you described it, it would have probably been helpful to learn why the country has changed so drastically. However, that having been said, I really don't think it would take too long, probably within one generation, two at the most, for the fabric of what we know to be completely torn apart in the face of a complete societal breakdown.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

I think society could break down like this. What I wanted was to SEE the reasons. The world building just felt lax and it took away from the story for me

[lejlkwiet.livejournal.com]

I've read the Hunger Games and did like it aside from the 'romantic' parts (and I generally like dystopian settings). They did say how the games started I think - the regions rebelled against the capital and when the rebellion was put down they were forced to give children as tribute to remind them of their place? I've got the second book waiting to be read, maybe it'll be explained more in detail there. I haven't read Unwind, this is the first I've heard of it.

But I do see what you mean. I think books like these generally rely on there having been some sort of cataclysm to get to that state? I really can't see society as it is today evolving into something like that without major upheaval.

And I don't know if you've read it but another dystopian novel sort of along the same lines is Garth Nix's Shade's Children which I really did enjoy. It was more plausible because they got rid of the adults before they started to use the children (basically they brought them up to be a certain age before harvesting them to create super soldiers to be used in war games).

But I really do understand the "I just don't see this happening. I don't WANT to see it happen." I feel the same, it's why I usually prefer books not set in our world, and even when they are, I prefer seeing them as something apart, not something that's actually possible, if that makes sense. I like my fiction to remain fictional :/

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

I might hav emissed that part but several reviews on Goodreads said the same thing, 'needs more convining world building'

I've read a bit more of Unwind and there are adults who do NOT like the unwinding and that makes much more sense.

I've not read that Nix book b ut i do like his stuff.

But i see what you mean and I do too, want my fiction to be fictional. I think that's why i prefer urban fantasy now to the others. It's real without being too out there (that and I've gotten to the point where i don't want to read a dozen 900 page novels to get the whole damn story)

[lejlkwiet.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it could have done with some more, that's for sure.

It does make more sense. When you're done let us know if you think it's worth reading?

You might like it, it really stood out to me.

I prefer less real books to sort of widen the divide between them and current reality (but no enormously long series, like you said. I steer clear of those because I know I'll never finish them, besides how I have to buy almost all my books since the library here sucks.) but I tend to read most anything regardless. If you're enjoying urban fantasy you might like The Demon's Lexicon by Sarah Rees Brennan, by the way.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

My librarian loved both Hunger Games and Unwind. I'll let you know on bookheaven and Goodreads what I think.

Yeah I live in the middle of nowhere and luckily Ihave two librarians who love what I do so I can get them to buy it for me. but yeah I have to buy most so I'm picky too (at least t hey're not as costly here as where you are)

I've heard of that one but not read it. Hey, belonging to the 50 books in a year group on Goodreads is giving me lots of ideas for things to read

[ladystarlightsj.livejournal.com]

You do get a titch more of how the Hunger Games came about in the sequel -- which is just as well done. And it is a post-apocalyptic scenario, dunno if that helps or not.

But yeah, I didn't like that setup either, although it's handled quite deftly.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

yeah i got that it was post apocalyptic (which already means I'm not going to like i t much) but i agree with you, it's well written but it didn't really entirely work for me.

[sillymagpie.livejournal.com]

I think dystopias usually exaggerate situations to make a point (I'd guess, perhaps wrongly, that the writer of Unwind is an anti-abortionist, for instance).

I would feel better with backstory, but I don't mind dystopias if done well. Unfortunately, the two you describe don't sound that interesting to me. :/

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

so far i'm not getting an anti-abortion whiff from Unwind

they're both well written but i would like more backstory on the situation

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

okay i may have spoke too soon. It seems the anti-abortionists won but I think the take away point here is THIS is the badness that comes of removing the right to chose (but it just took another hard to believe bend so I don't know if i'll be finishing it)

[elfbiter.livejournal.com]

Historically similar situations have happened in societies where needs of the community are put above the desires of the individual (like some Chinese villagers drowing their newborn because otherwise the village as a whole will starve or Carthaginians throwing their kids to sacrificial pyre because they believe that otherwise the besieging enemy will destroy the city).

Otherwise I would have to believe that some rare modern attitudes (socialite parents dumping their newborn to trash because they would be just drain of economic resources or seeing them only as good or bad investments or status symbols) would have spread to society as a whole.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

I agree. (heck let's not even get into the Chinese farmers killing their girls when the one child only rule was enforced). However, there were reasons and I think that's what is b ugging me. there really isn't much of a reason given

[ozma914.livejournal.com]

No, not realistic -- at least, not to the normal people of our society. Most parents, even bad ones, are capable of amazing feats of strength and sacrifice when their kids are endangered. One reason it becomes so big on the news when a parents sells their kid for drugs is because most of us just can't fathom what kind of person would do such a thing.

I don't know if those books are good or bad, but in the modern entertainment industry (books and movies especially) the awards tend to go toward stories that are dystopian, tragic, anti-religious, and preferably have happy endings, so there you go. That's why I stopped watching the Academy Awards -- I just don't like the same movies they do.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

this is true. Points to a post of mine about a month ago when I found out OH is one of the best places to come buy a kid for sex (because OH is busy protecting our pets but has little in the way of laws to protect women and kids, geez) and I was horrified.

Most of the ones I'm reading don't even have happy endings. But I have never liked the Oscars for jsut that reason. They go after movies that most of us haven't even heard of let alone care about

[ozma914.livejournal.com]

I remember you posting about that; still hard to conceive.

The people who vote on the Oscars generally hate popular movies. How could the average citizen possibly understand what makes a great motion picture? *gasp* The Academy Awards are not for the unwashed masses!

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

isn't it though? Lovely stuff

Yeah well again that's the reason not to like the Oscars. This year proved it again. Let's give it to a movie real bomb disposal crews think is laughable

[ozma914.livejournal.com]

I'd been given the early impression that Hurt Locker was relatively realistic and even-handed, but the more people who saw it, the more I heard otherwise. Guess I shouldn't have been surprised.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

well if you listen to the director it's totally real to life. Real soldiers tend to disagree loudly

[ozma914.livejournal.com]

That reminds me of when the lead actor on "Rescue Me", who announced in the interview that the oversexed, drug using, half incompetent and half crazy characters on his show were exactly what real firefighters are like.

Yeah. NO.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

yeah and I guess that is the same kind of hot dog Hurt Locker portrayed and the military is like that sort of soldier wouldn't be let within 500 feet of our division

[ozma914.livejournal.com]

Exactly! If the guys on Rescue Me were on my department, I'd be in the chief's office wanting them thrown out within a week. Whether in the military or any other kind of dangerous job, those people are nothing but a hazard to themselves and others.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

that's prettymuch exactly what the soldiers said as well

[ishte.livejournal.com]

Yah, as a parent, and even having seen some of the disgusting things that parents will do TO their kids. the fact is MOST parents don't do those things, and even MOST of the ones who do do terrible things to their kids will also insanely protect their kids from anyone else doing anything to them, often to the point of even having an authority figure speak harshly to them, much less touch them.

I find it hard to believe that the natural parental instinct to protect our offspring could become so far gone that our society could develop the sorts of practices that the stories you mentioned find commonplace and normal.

[cornerofmadness.livejournal.com]

as good as both these stories were, that really did bother me and b oth societies developed in under 75 years