Writerly Ways

[cornerofmadness]

I'm wondering what makes you keep reading a book if you don't like the protagonist because they're obnoxious (question brought to you by my aunt acting out yesterday and embarrassing everyone because she IS the definition of a Karen. Glad I missed it).

I'm sure the answer to this is 'it depends' but I'm curious as to what makes you look past a protagonist you don't like for me it's either the plot is cool or the supporting characters are interesting. Case in point Fruits Basket I could not stand that Mary Sue of a protagonist Tohru Honda (shocked that I still remember her name) but the members of the Zodiac and Cat were intriguing enough for me to read on.

How do you handle writing a character that people will probably not like?


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Comments

[the_siobhan]

I have read some books where a character is written in such a way that they are actively fun to hate. I suspect that isn't what you are talking about tho

[cornerofmadness]

The Archie Bunker effect, yeah that counts too

[falkner]

If I find the main character unlikeable, it's usually a hard time to keep on reading. There's been a few exceptions, but I would say that an unlikeable MC is my main reason to drop a book (along with MCs who are just plain boring and fail to make me interested in reading their story).

[cornerofmadness]

honestly both are very valid reasons to stop reading. There are probably more books/tv shows I drop because I don't like the main characters than are ones I stick with

[badly_knitted]

I struggled my way through one recently because it was author I'd always enjoyed in the past, but the main character was so thoroughly dislikeable, and that was deliberate, he was supposed to be that way, I think that was sort of the point, and... the various alien races in the book were fascinating, and I was glad I got all the way through it, but I almost gave up at several points. So, I guess author and ideas were what kept me going, despite constantly wanting to shoot the main character.

[cornerofmadness]

Yeah sometimes that's what gets me going. The rest of the story is interesting enough to deal with the jerkhole

[badly_knitted]

Sometimes it's not though. I've given up on a lot of books where I just got so fed up with everything.

[cornerofmadness]

Same. I'm at the life's too short point to waste time on books I don't like

[badly_knitted]

Same here. I'm even occasionally skimming through books just so I have a general idea of what happens, then adding them to the pile to go.

I did just finish reading a fantasy that I tried to get into twice before, and it turned out to be really good once I got through the first 70 or so pages so I'm glad I persevered. Some clever twists, and I liked a lot of the characters. The first part was just hard going for reasons I can't even figure out. Still, I liked it a lot in the end.

[cornerofmadness]

Sometimes I skim (mostly if a) I paid for it b) reading it for a challenge c) have some problem I want to review and feel like I should at least half finish it)

sometimes I'm not into something and set it aside and come back (doing that right now. There's nothing wrong with the book, I liked the characters but half way thru I went...yeah not into it right now)

[badly_knitted]

I've done that with the first of Stephen Baxter's Mammoth trilogy. I like the Mammoth characters, but not the humans, and it's already too tragic for me to cope with right now. I haven't touched it in months. I might continue at a later date. Not sure I'll get through all three books though. I stalled halfway through a much thicker fantasy a year of so ago but eventually finished it. Haven't started the third volume of that trilogy yet though.

[cornerofmadness]

Don't know that one. Any more I have a no over 400 pages rule unless it's something I really love. I've noticed the older I get the less able I am to want giant books. Was going to get Joe Hill's new one and it's 900 pages. thanks but no

[badly_knitted]

It's interesting because it's told from the POV of a small band of mammoths that have survived into modern times, but it's hard going thanks to the brutality of humans.

Books were so much shorter when we were younger. I'm two thirds of the way through Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow, & Thorn trilogy, and I want to finish it, but it's taking me years because the books are so thick. I have other long ones on my shelves that I keep shying away from. I remember the days I used to love really long books, but now... I haven't got the patience I used to have.

[cornerofmadness]

Never even heard of the mammoth thing

I'm with you. I no longer have the patience for long books. And yes really the fantasies weren't shorter per se they were just broken into more books (which I found more digestible than two 800 + monsters)

[badly_knitted]

I'm kind of wishing I hadn't at this point...

Yes, but now even trilogies and 5 book sets are made up of doorstop sized volumes. My shelves seem laden with massive tomes, but I'd rather read something short and easy to digest.

[cornerofmadness]

snort. There are series I've given up for various reasons (The Dresden Files, Anita Blake)

And you're not wrong

[badly_knitted]

I've stalled somewhere several volumes into the Dresden Files myself, halfway through a book.

Re-reading the original Dorsai trilogy, so nice to have SHORT books. Also a lot of volumes of short SF stories. Then maybe I'll launch myself into the last volume of the fantasy trilogy I've been wading through for the past two or three years.

[cornerofmadness]

I got through to the last few when Harry is basically a god and he's attracted to Michael's daughter (also Butcher has rung the older man barely legal girl bell a few too many times for me)

there you go. I think this is also why I read more mysteries than SFF these days

[badly_knitted]

Yeah, haven't got that far and probably won't. =)

I like the occasional mystery, but I'm an SF girl at heart. I like a plot that stretches my mind, even if I don't understand all the science.

[cornerofmadness]

you won't be missing much. I wish he'd start using Thomas again (or give us a Thomas book)

I started falling out of love with SF in the 90s when the military SF was all you could find. I've been slowly getting back into it

[badly_knitted]

Depends on the kind of military SF, some are okay. Usually my preference is for interesting aliens and alien cultures, but I think it very much depends on the author. I usually prefer older SF to the newer, but I have read some newer books that I've really enjoyed. I just don't often tend to keep them once I've read them nowadays.

[cornerofmadness]

I ran aground on too many military SF that were still using flogging as punishment... we have space ships and this is the best we can do?!?

I prefer space opera like Star Trek or space horror

and cozy fantasy, SO glad to see that make a come back

[badly_knitted]

Ugh, never come across that, personally. I guess the Dorsai books are military SF, but a different breed. Lots about tactics.

Space opera is fun. I'm not so much on horror these days. Creep myself out too much.

Most of my fantasy seems to be the epic variety *sigh*

[cornerofmadness]

Yeah I mean technically Star Wars is military SF and that's fine

I love the creep out (but not necessarily gore) I love Alien/Aliens (and not the rest of the franchise)

Like I said I've backed away from epic fantasy lately.

[badly_knitted]

That's a good point, and I love the original Star Wars trilogy.

Alien / Aliens, two awesome movies. I like to WATCH that sort of thing, but not read it. Reading, my imagination goes into overdrive, and not in a good way.

I think I may be too old for epic anything these days.

[cornerofmadness]

Yes I could understand that a brain can get carried away. I'm good with it (I need to be. I'm mostly a horror author)


I feel ya. I want less epic and more one shot

[badly_knitted]

I've always had a very vivid imagination. It can be a mixed blessing.

Short one-shots at that.

[cornerofmadness]

Oh it's definitely easy to scare yourself. My brother's place where I was just house/cat sitting, freaked me out (I didn't this time oddly. I was just thinking about this this morning) because it has two perpendicular full wall mirrors and I'm like the previous owners created a psychomanetum)

yes shorter is better. I'm thrilled they're now doing tons of novellas lately

[badly_knitted]

That would freak me out too!

I'm reading my way through a bunch of short story collections, some by a single author, others by a whole bunch of different people. Only keeping them if there's something truly stand-out in them.

[cornerofmadness]

yeah I'm like I'm psychic enough without this.


I only keep anthologies if I'M in them, ha.

[badly_knitted]

Which is an EXCELLENT reason to keep them!

[cornerofmadness]

Indeed. In fact, I'm waiting to hear the publication date for my next one

[badly_knitted]

Woohoo!

[cornerofmadness]

thanks

[ysilme]

it's either the plot is cool or the supporting characters are interesting
That, but also really good writing, interesting setting/scenario, good take on one of my favourite tropes.
I'm actually often not mainly interested in the main protagonists but reading for one or more of the other reasons.

How do you handle writing a character that people will probably not like?
I don't have much experience with that as I find it difficult in general to write an unlikeable character, let alone a baddie etc. (one of my larger writing weaknesses), but any adverse/non-positive character I'm writing or trying to write, I can't write without giving them reasons and a lot of back-story for their unwanted or unpopular behaviour or charater, not to justify them but to make it understandable why they are this way, behaving this way etc. (admittedly mostly for myself, though) - and then end up developing sympathies for them and can't proceed with the original plan for them... /o\
So yeah, to answer your question, I'd flesh them out well, give them backstory just because I can't not do it, but I have serious issues with them remaining the bad guys afterwards. ;op

[cornerofmadness]

Certainly an interesting setting will keep me reading, ditto an interesting plot (which I think is why I kept chugging on along with Fruits Basket)

Villains can be rough to write, I agree. I do prefer that the jerks have reasons to be jerks (though in real life I'm not sure that's true)

[spikedluv]

Sometimes I will continue reading a book because the concept is interesting AND I hope the main character will get better. I recently DNF'd another cozy because the main character got worse, and finally, at 60%, I couldn't take it any more.

[cornerofmadness]

sounds good. I know what you mean. Too bad about that cozy (I find a lot of them to be a bit trying in their attempt to be 'quirky')

[spikedluv]

She had some legitimate gripes, but she acted so stupidly trying to solve a theft really quickly (confronting suspect #1 and jumping the gun and telling people the case was solved when it wasn't, then, against common sense, planning to confront suspect #2 by herself) and I couldn't take her idiocy any more. Also, her gripes made her so whiny it was hard to feel empathy for her. I kept thinking, god, get over it. Not great writing to make your character so annoying.

[cornerofmadness]

ugh yeah that's annoying. Cozies really need to be careful on how they handle someone who in reality has no business solving a mystery

[suzume]

I quite enjoyed that 'writing boiling down to sheer grit' article that you linked!

[cornerofmadness]

cool. Haven't had time to read that one

[suzume]

It's worthwhile, I think, if you're a writer (which you very obviously are!).

[cornerofmadness]

Good to know. Betty sent me a lot this week

[stonepicnicking_okapi]

Honestly, if the book fills an obscure (to me) square on my book bingo, I will probably try to power through if I don't have any other works in mind which might fill that square. But there's a point which even that won't keep me going. I had to DNF one last month for my non-Human POV square because I just hated all three of them (cat included) so much.

If the plot is Very Clever, I might power through. But I might tell myself 'life is short' too.

[cornerofmadness]

Same here with reading challenge prompts (just finished a kinda boring Star Trek book because it filled 2 different ones)

I read The Mushroom Knight Vol. 1 by Oliver Bly for the non-human challenge but that is a deeply weird graphic novel

I also feel you on the life's too short things. I used to power through but by the time I hit my 40s I started thinking why am I wasting time?

[tellshannon815]

For me it's definitely been the supporting characters that have kept me going in the past when I've found the so-called main character really irritating.

[cornerofmadness]

most of the time it's the same for me